GoS-DB Players

CHARLES CARMAN

Note: Some sources incorrectly spell his name as Carmen.

Full Name: Charles Edward Carman

Born: 19 October 1886

Came from: Christ Church United, Tunbridge Wells Went to: Released

First game: 24 April 1909 Last game: 24 April 1909

Appearances: 1 (1/0) Goals: 0

Carman made one appearance for Argyle, as a triallist at outside-left in the final game of the 1908-09 season, having previously played for Christ Church United in Tunbridge Wells and possibly for amateur side Tunbridge Wells FC, but not for the more senior Tunbridge Wells Rangers as some records show. A newspaper in Kent on 23rd April 1909 reported his link with Argyle as: "Charles Carman the clever football forward playing for Christ Church United has been asked to play in a Southern League match with Northampton Town and also in a friendly ... for the same club against Manchester City at Home Park, Plymouth. This may probably lead to an engagement next season if he gives satisfaction to the Directors and can be prevailed on to sign a professional form."

However, all did not go according to plan; the Western Evening Herald report of the game said: "Carman seldom did anything that stamped him as more than an ordinary player ... he was hardly promising, but was placed at a disadvantage as Wilcox, his partner, was lame for the most part of the game which prevented him from keeping up with the pace of the ball."

It is not clear how Argyle became interested in a young player who was not even playing in the top division of local football across the other side of the country in Kent. He was back in Tunbridge Wells for the following season, this time with the leading club in the town, Tunbridge Wells Rangers.

Incidentally, one of Carman's teammates in that Tunbridge Wells Rangers side was F. Prout, the brother of Argyle's Dick Prout, who came to Home Park two seasons later, soon after his brother had died whilst playing football.

Footnote: Carman's first name has remained a mystery for many years, but in conjunction with a Tunbridge Wells Rangers' historian, we have discovered he was Charles. Andrew Chapman's contribution (below) outlines the story.

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From Andrew Chapman in Leeds on 07/01/2014 ...

Carman for many years was one of very few Argyle players for whom no first name was known but was eventually found after dialogue with Roger Bassett, Tunbridge Wells Rangers' Historian. Amongst other Carmans, a census search revealed a Charles Carman who was of the right age and living in Plymouth at the time, but also appeared to have ties with Kent. This was further proven via discussion with Roger, who confirmed:

"I have just checked through the local paper for early 1909. The player in question is Charles Carman and is more than likely the Charles Edward Carman referred to in your e-mail. He did not play for Tunbridge Wells Rangers but was playing for a local side called Christ Church United who that season won the Tonbridge League Division 2. Indications are that he could have had an occasional game for Tunbridge Wells FC who were an amateur side, completely separate from the Rangers, playing in the Southern Amateur League Section B although at this stage this has not been proven. The report that involved Plymouth Argyle FC appeared in the paper on the 23rd April 1909:

“Charles Carman the clever football forward playing for Christ Church United has been asked to play in a Southern League match with Northampton at the latter town and also in a friendly on Monday next for the same club against Manchester City at Home Park Plymouth. This may probably lead to an engagement next season if he gives satisfaction to the directors and can be prevailed on to sign a professional form."

Where he played football after this trial is still unknown - he certainly was not in the Christ Church United side at the start of the next season. It would also be interesting if one could find out how a club so far away as Plymouth became interested in a young player who was not even playing in the top division in local football.

I trust this gives you a basis on which to include him in your records."

APPEARANCE DETAILS [reselect competitions]

The details below reflect appearances in all first-team competitions.